Templeton Board of Selectmen
Workshop
Town Hall, 160 Patriots Road, East Templeton
Monday, March 19, 2018, 6:30 p.m.
Agenda
1. Call the Meeting to Order
2. Discuss Town Administrator’s Proposed Budget & Legislative Package for FY’19
3. Adjournment
____________________________________________________________________
Templeton Board of Selectmen
Workshop
Town Hall, 160 Patriots Road, East Templeton
Tuesday, March 20, 2018, 6:30 p.m.
Agenda
1. Call the Meeting to Order
2. Discuss Town Administrator’s Proposed Budget & Legislative Package for FY’19
3. Adjournment
_____________________________________________________________________
Templeton Board of Selectmen
NRHS KIVA, 464 Baldwinville Road, Baldwinville, MA 01436
Wednesday, March 21, 2018, 6:00 p.m.
AGENDA
Attend Narragansett Regional School Committee Meeting- General Discussion RE: Budget Hearing and Meeting
Templeton Board of Selectmen
Workshop
Town Hall, 160 Patriots Road, East Templeton
Thursday, March 22, 2018, 6:30 p.
________________________________________________________________________
Agenda
1. Call the Meeting to Order
2. Discuss Town Administrator’s Proposed Budget & Legislative Package for FY’19
3. Adjournment
Scheduled for March 19 - Public Works / Highway - Pubic Works / Buildings & Grounds
Schools / Sewer / Warrant Review
With a few meetings cancellations due to weather, there will probably be some adjustment, as was scheduled for March 7 were Executive Officers & IT / Development Services / Administration & Finance: Town Clerk, Assessor, Treasurer/Collector, Debt, Accountant, Insurance & Benefits.
Community Services: Library, Recreation & Culture, Council on Aging, Veterans, Cable.
____________________________________________________________________________
Templeton Board of Selectmen
Workshop
Town Hall, 160 Patriots Road, East Templeton
Wednesday, March 28, 2018, 6:30 p.m.
Agenda
1. Call the Meeting to Order
2. Public Meeting~To Hear Comments, Suggestions & Concerns RE: FY’19 Budget
http://www.templeton1.org/sites/templetonma/files/file/file/publichearing031418_1.pdf
3. Discuss Town Administrator’s Proposed Budget & Legislative Package for FY’19
4. Adjournment
Perhaps item #2 is the time and place for clarification on vehicle excise tax, Cadillac tax and luxury tax; what they are, what they concern and how are they used pertaining to Templeton.
This is a selectmen's meeting schedule and I believe it would be safe to reason that all selectmen would be aware of this and that would be the time/place to debate anything in question.
As someone who tries to be aware, I believe much time will be spent on ALS, override to fund it, as well as the increase in the two school districts and how those increases will be handled.
I hope these meetings are well attended.
How’s the 2019 local aid money from the Gov this year
ReplyDeleteBev likes history, so do I and I suspect a lot of others as well - hopefully . I found this in my archives when I was having a conversation with someone who knows a lot more about taxes and municipalities and funding of services that I do even today.
ReplyDeletePart 1 “For those who are questioning the need for a Prop 2 1/2 override - you have to understand the recent economic history of Massachusetts to understand a lot of what's going on. During the 70s and 80s there was a huge boom in real estate values all through the area. As an example, my parents purchased, in the early 70s, a colonial house on an acre lot, for the tune of about $40K. When it came time for them to move around 1990, they ended up getting over a quarter of a million for it. And that was at a time when the local real estate market was experiencing a temporary down-turn.
In Massachusetts the majority of the operating budget for local jurisdictions comes from property taxes: That is, the schools, the town highway department, the town police and fire services, and other local services are mostly funded by property taxes. There may be state aid to some jurisdictions, but in general, the lion's share of the operating budget is derived from property taxes. “
Part 2 “ During the 70s, too, there were the days of the high inflation. Both of these factors ended up leaving municipalities caught between a rock and a hard place - they weren't changing the appraisal values on property often enough to keep up with the real value of real property, and the money they were getting in from property taxes weren't high enough to keep meeting operating expenses. So, in a remarkably short-sighted and completely predictable series of decisions they chose to try to raise property tax rates high enough to make up the budget shortfalls. It was easier and cheaper than adjusting appraisals. But it ended up with people starting to face things like a 10% per annum change in property tax bills. (Not a 10% change in the property tax rate - simply in the amount that the individuals were paying.) A lot of people got burned by this when it happened, in a number of places people were honestly worried about being taxed off their property.
ReplyDeleteSo, some people in Boston (IIRC) came up with the bright idea of passing a law limiting the ability of a jurisdiction to change property tax burden. IIRC Prop 2 1/2 limits the change in the tax bill to no more than 2.5% of the previous year's property tax bill. Which sounded great to a lot of people at the time, who were getting caught up in the works. But capping the annual change in property tax to an amount that's been less than the annual inflation rates leaves many municipalities losing ground, consistently. And, until/unless Prop 2 1/2 ever gets off the Mass books, it's not going to change any time soon. “
Part 3 “
ReplyDeleteIOW, I believe that Prop 2 1/2 is a legacy of a tax-payer revolt that is going to keep hurting Massachusetts for years, unless more people are willing to try to educate the electorate on the realities of what it does.
Again, it's not limiting the change in the property tax rates - those don't need to change all that much. What it does, however, is leaves places with a bubbling property market behind the eight-ball in terms being able to actually keep up with changes in real market value for properties. Which isn't going to be getting better any time soon, I don't think.
If one looks at this chart (http://inflationdata.com/inflation/inflation_rate/CurrentInflation.asp), it seems to support my impression that for the past several years, the inflation rate averages about 3% per annum. Which means if one keeps the change in property tax bills capped a change of 2.5% per annum, these municipalities are going to keep losing ground indefinately. Prop 2 1/2 had been a nightmare waiting to happen, all along. “
** this was a email exchange I believe I had in 2009
Does anyone have handy a tax history from 1980 - I would very much like to see that.
ReplyDeleteHere's a ready source of money for the general fund - convert CPA taxes to an override.
ReplyDeleteAsk for a new town meeting vote to eliminate the CPA tax. The ask for an override in the exact same amount.
CPA was a nice idea, but can Templeton spend that money better? Yes, it could be spent on general government services, which are the town's reason for being.
The state has gradually reduced the match. FY2018 resulted in the lowest match to date.
https://www.mma.org/dls-estimates-record-low-15-state-match-cpa-fy18
One of the main reasons that you have the Town Hall that you do, rather than another 40 year loan, is because of the CPA tax. A lot has to do with who spends it on what project. Some projects are more worthy than others, much like selectman and their choices.
DeleteSomething to be said there. Again, the funding and in this case preservation ( who doesn’t want that ) falls on - 2.5 prop tax or the state “ subject to appropriations “ . If anyone knows how much is that on the tax rate ? As the question above suggests to apply that money to the potential override request ?
ReplyDeleteYou can look on your tax bill to find the rate. If you don't get a tax bill, you should just shut up.
ReplyDeleteThankyou kind person so helpful. I can’t imagine why no one wants to participate in discussions or attend a meeting.
ReplyDeleteAnon 2:52,
DeleteExcuse me for saying, but what makes you believe Anon 2:37 attends meetings? Not one meeting I have attended in the recent past has anyone been told to shut up. I'll honestly say the rudest comments I've heard at any meeting have been directed at Bev and Wil from the BOS/TA.
Most meetings are conducted with little to no fanfair.
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DeleteI agree Bob - I have witnessed, say at least since 2014 ? Maybe good and cival discourse. I am wrong to say that about people attending meetings I have not seen that like I said in a few years.
DeleteYes I have seen and I did it myself with some wiseass comments to Bev and for that I hope she accepts my apologies. I will try my level best going forward as it adds 0 to the conversation, in fact it adds heat not light.
My hope is that I am not like others here who say some wise apple response to get called out for it . As others seem to have been subject to when in opposition the majority on this blog.
I can say that Bob has never been rude or condescending in my opinion and he is a better man for doing that.
Thanks.....
DeleteWelcome
DeleteFrom link above “
ReplyDeleteThe Community Preservation Act, passed in 2000, allows participating municipalities to place a surcharge of up to 3 percent on real property in order to create a local dedicated fund for the four allowable CPA purposes: open space preservation, historic preservation, outdoor recreation and affordable housing. Communities that have adopted the CPA receive annual distributions from the state trust fund.
The state match rate this year is 20.6 percent.
From 2002 to 2007, the state matched 100 percent of the local revenue raised through CPA surcharges, but the match has dropped precipitously since then. A state law change in 2012 added additional revenue to the trust fund, raising the match to 52.2 percent, but increased adoption in recent years has meant that the fund is divided among more communities, reducing the match percentage.
For more information on the CPA, visit www.communitypreservation.org.“
Looks like from 2016 town report : CPA Surcharge Tax - $124,805.37
Fun fact the town hall - Used these very funds available to them
CPA funds have been used for worthy projects. They've also been used for questionable projects (private home improvement, church repair).
ReplyDeleteWe would give up some (diminished) state matches. But we would gain control over 100% of tax money levied.
Good point and should be debated in full . In agreement on this.
ReplyDeleteNice to see people thinking about more than yes or no............ I hope we can have open honest and informative discussions. We need to be able to look at everything, from soup to nuts.....
ReplyDeleteIt would seem that it might be a good time to look at disposing surplus ready equipment, excess land owned by the town not for town purposes, all excess inventories.
In total agreement. Thankyou
ReplyDeleteTo get people to do needed things is the perennial hard task of government.. That it is right to help someone less fortunate is figured in most systems (government or privately ) of conduct since the beginning of the race. We often fail at this however. My hope is the majority agree that to help others is the right action.
ReplyDelete"Government" is an ideal that people have perverted to their own benefit. Face facts - we should strive as little government as possible.
ReplyDeleteI don’t subscribe to the Grover Norquist theory you post.
DeleteBig government is the problem not the solution .
DeleteAnon 5:10,
ReplyDeleteI absolutely agree. Helping others in need has to be some part of the equation. I just am worried that even looking at these areas puts up some people defenses beyond reason.
I've been Dependant on services of family and others, it sucks. I've sat with people in DR's offices who got their through volunteer drivers. These services are vital to those in need. I dont think that means just keep giving more money. We do need to review services, costs, etc and sometimes you'll find extra money, extra time or rational for the increase. Sometimes when circumstances change we need to look at methods.
Anon 5:10,
ReplyDeleteI absolutely agree. Helping others in need has to be some part of the equation. I just am worried that even looking at these areas puts up some people defenses beyond reason.
I've been Dependant on services of family and others, it sucks. I've sat with people in DR's offices who got their through volunteer drivers. These services are vital to those in need. I dont think that means just keep giving more money. We do need to review services, costs, etc and sometimes you'll find extra money, extra time or rational for the increase. Sometimes when circumstances change we need to look at methods.
Anon 9:04 I have learned a long time ago not to be too sensitive ! I am passionate about the town I love ! There is nothing wrong with having strong feelings, so long as we do not beat up on each other. What does not kill me makes me stronger ! I am sick of people who never have attended any meeting I go to, run for the BOS, to do the same things over and over again ! The same things that have never worked before, and surprise, surprise will not work now !
ReplyDeleteAnon. 9:41, As far as FOR funds, a lot of good things have been accomplished with that money. Without it, the work would never have been done at the cemetery behind the church. The statues would not be repaired. I know the historical building will need work on the back wall. I am not sure we would loose more than we gain, but in reality I think we would loose. Bev.
Delete
DeleteDam,
kindle, I meant CPC !
What is the saying about history ? If you don't learn from mistakes, you are bound to do the same thing over and over. We are living proof that this is true ! It is my aim that we break this cycle for once and for all. I don't care how we figure it out, as long as we do. Understand ???
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteBev, yes I certainly do understand your concerns. I also admire your thick skin comment however, you have consistently requested for people to be respectfully and for that you should be respected. So, that said I will do my level best to keep my comments on topic and not as ad hominem ( at least for you ).
ReplyDeleteI would hope- as I understand your budgetary concerns long term for this town that you also understand that I have a disagreement with cutting beyond the fat into bone thereby doing even more damage.
It’s very difficult as in any small town to cut your neighbors meals on wheels or perhaps an ALS response. I cannot ( me personally ) justify cutting any programs at this time in those 2 areas. That to me is unconscionable.
The CPA idea yesterday , excess equipment, perhaps more fees on licensing those are all viable for me. The raising gradually of all these should be done with the rate of CPI ( consumer price index ) as I content prop 2.5 since 1980 as to properly reflect true costs of running a municipal and school. ( see all prop 2.5 links provided for more detail ) The marijuana / hemp - that should be good full steam ahead and if you don’t that is just another missed opportunity for this town in a string of them.
As I content their is not enough meat never mind fat on this budget to cut Bev.
Your team and others will have a chance to present other viable I hope ideas in the next few days. I wish to hear from people who have access to detail budget information concrete ideas. “We” here don’t want slogans “ cut the waste, fraud and abuse “ . Empty rhetoric is great for gathering masses in agreement to run to the voting booth but that is not a budget solution.
One solution was to go in with the communities around us to share services. That is coming from the DOR. I am not saying to cut elder services to the bone, but changes need to be made. ALS will not pay for it's self >>> I will stake my life on an outside ambulance service. We can reduce hours at town hall.. There are things that have to be done, just due to the finances coming in. Poor choices have cost this town big time, and these bad choices have to stop ! I am all for finding other ways to bring in money, that should be a given. As a town we cannot live on steak if we have a dog food budget. Concrete ideas, bring them on. I am just trying to get the people I know that have been burned to stand up for them selves. At my age, I will give as much as I can. Reality sucks, but it is what it is. Understand ? I hope so. Bev.
DeleteI’m assuming “understand ? “ is rhetorical. Again you may be willing to “ stake your life on it “ but that is not a fact that is your belief as you are untitled to. I’m not sure what facts you have to support that argument as on its face it would appear to me to be inaccurate.
ReplyDeleteAs the link I posted about the DOR report ( scathing in its review I thought ) yes - I suppose that’s why Templeton and others around us signed the community pact agreements ( Baker/Politico) However, when a say comments from persons in some standing are seen by many as inflamitory, accusatory and unfounded it’s hard to bring good will to the table to hammer out agreements with said towns.
I wish I could go back in my life and correct mistakes - I cannot . I can however, go forward and make better decisions and leave things better than how they were left to me or how I now find them now.
How many use the meals on wheels?
ReplyDeleteNot sure if “ how many “ is how such a vital program to those who some built this town should be worded as a potential money savings avenue of “ a few thousand of dollars” when the budget is short - hundreds of thousands to be honest.
ReplyDeleteIf you feel comfortable in discussing the value of cutting this by all means go right ahead. Me not so much.
I will also add I find it rather ironic that those who speak of the elderly not being able to afford to live here. Do you feel the same of those elderly that live here that receive meals and the wellness check ? Do you feel that extra hypothetical as I would assume they get an abatement 120.00 dollars a year will pay for a private agency or family member to do the same ? Maybe you should ask those who get meals on wheels their family.
ReplyDelete* Great leaders have said the test of any civilization is how it treats those most vulnerable. Meals on Wheels demonstrates our country’s effort to rise up and meet this standard.. It’s a federal , state and local funding service that should not be looked at as a cut in this town - my opinion
Anon 10:08, 10:20,
ReplyDeleteThis is my concern. Like you many people avoid looking at these types of services because of the citizens who receive the end service.
My concern is "How much are we spending to get these services to those people and is their a better way?"
I look at things like this:
17 x 5 = 85 meals a week by 52 weeks is 4420 potential meals a year. Now if we use Carters numbers of about $12,000 that comes to about $2.71 a day per meal. I know when my aunt received the service it cost the recipient $2.00 a day. Using those numbers (correct me if wrong) thats $4.71 a meal per day.
Now you can add in all the administration, car maintenance and acquisition, space costs etc and I think it becomes clear that a more effective means might be available.
I for one dont want people to go hungry over a few dollars, but we do need to look at our delivery of those services to see if we are overpricing the product.....
Bob - if you want to get into the minutia of cost benifit if delivery of a meal to an elderly, sick or disabled or perhaps all 3 - again by all means have at it. That to me is not an area that will give one a lot of 1. Commnitys support ( rightly so ) 2. Will produce the kind of savings needed
DeleteSorry for typos .
DeleteI've known people who got the meals and hardly ever ate them. Adult children would pay for the service, to ease guilt over living far away. The recipient said the meals were pretty tasteless.
ReplyDeleteAnecdotal stories I have them as well . I knew someone who was so glad to see the meals on wheels lady everyday . My gram waited in the window for him. He smiled and asked how she was and in return her day was made better . The food - well she was glad to have it - not the best she used to say but I’m glad I have it .. I just add to it and make it taste better she said .. be kind
DeleteWell , by all means bring that up 3.28.2018 . If the taste of food that some rely on is ones criteria for the program then maybe your comment is valid. I myself don’t enjoy hospital food either.
ReplyDeleteHow can one make a 5 star meal with 6.50 a day but if you want to contribute more which it sounds like you don’t by all means - advocate for more money -
Some criteria for meals on wheels
Who is eligible to receive Meals on Wheels?
Individuals, who by receiving nutritional support are better able to maintain independence and well-being in their own homes, including:
Seniors
Adults who are chronically ill
Adults living with a disability
Adults convalescing from surgery or illness
Adults undergoing medical treatment
I will also say any discussion if that takes place at all about cutting the program is absolutely in undemocratic. I say that because the ones that rely on this program are perhaps not even able to get to Town Meeting physically or even mentally grasp what is being proposed.
ReplyDeleteIt's a system designed by bureacrats, for the benefit of the people who work there. At one time, and this may still be true, the meals were made in Worcester. Pretty unwieldy system!
ReplyDeleteThey should just have one of those empty MART bus pick up meals from Market Basket Kitchen and deliver them instead of driving around empty. You can get a tasty lunch at MB Kitchen for less than $6.50. Better than some crap with no taste hauled up from Worcester.
^ as witnessed above - please fully support public education - thankyou
ReplyDeleteThere you go again, assuming you are smarter than someone else.
ReplyDeleteDo you find the suggestion of market basket enlightening ?
DeleteAccording to you, my ability to recognize an unwieldy system shows a lack of education. Sounds right. Keep indoctrinating, uh, educating, people until they're unable to discern wasteful gub'mint programs.
ReplyDeleteLet’s talk apart your suggestion :
ReplyDeleteIs market basket able to do this for dietary nees
- diabetic - cardiac - celiac etc ?
Is the “mart bus” equipped to keep food warm / cold ?
Who is liable if market basket makes the wrong dietary “ formulation “ and causes someone a medical need ?
Just a few thoughts
I was watching the BOS meeting the other day and while listening to the discussion on the Mac & Cheese festival I couldn't help but wonder how much money that festival generates vs how much it costs to run in town services.
ReplyDeleteI know they get billed, but looking at the discussion it appears they are going to get billed for everything which appears to be different than previous years.
You think that only government can solve problems. I think government can waste money by using such ridiculous reasoning.
ReplyDeleteMeals on Wheels is an expensive, subsidised program that delivers very low quality meals, many of which end up where they belong. In the trash.
You should have been around before LBJ. Then, you have seen that people could live without a "great society". Yeah - great! After spending trillions on big government, all we've done is made a class of perennial clients of the state.
Anon 1:06,
ReplyDeleteAre you saying I think that?
No, Bob M. I was replying to 941, who never saw a government social program he didn't like.
ReplyDeleteCool, Thanks. I was wondering how I was being misread so bad..........lol.
DeleteI wish we had a librarian here to help us figure out things like where to go in a publically funded library to verity what is being so ridiculously being trumped out by a lonely person surrounded by 10’s of copies of Ayn Rand and old videos of Barry Goldwater. I bet any money from my Social security check that you scribble your “ thoughts “ on a chalkboard 1st.
DeleteI know for a fact and see first hand, so it's Fact.
ReplyDeleteMany that receive meals for free can very much afford to pay their way, and they are the ones most opposed to ending it. Because of that it is a service that is not a Need but rather a Want and not neccessary
Take their free oil away to! That’s a joke !!! Let them pay like I do !
ReplyDeleteOh my ! Good luck Monday night .
DeleteFU anon 941
DeleteHello - anyone going to ask for a link to this find individual on how to FU yourself ? Not just “ criticism “ and ask “ others to do the work for you” ? This blog is a reflection of the Town - if it’s not known now. I think it should be in someone’s interest to let policy people know what the “ thinking “ is in this town for people outside this area it’s helpful I think don’t “you “ ?
ReplyDeleteHe said FU. He never said "FU yourself".
ReplyDeleteMaybe we should break it down - To Fu oneself - let’s discuss .
DeleteYou’re wrong be said “FU anon 941 “ is that acceptable ? Is Say, FU 650 now ok ?
ReplyDeleteGee I wonder who is saying all this nasty stuff ? Maybe the person who can now complain about the quality of this blog ? Sounds about right !! Ironic isn't it.
Delete