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Board members.
No ! These hurt the town again and again ! We have been down this road so many times. Why do you think our roads are a mess ? Its because every time we are broke, the town departments get cut. We never catch up.
That's stupid. Spend $3 million on salaries and wasteful gedunk because otherwise, our roads will be even shittier. But none of the new spending is fixing roads.
We don't need the things this government provides. We do need better roads, but none of this money is road repairs. THD driving around filling potholes that are potholes again in 3 days isn't worth 25% tax increase. Neither is fattening the pensions of our "public servants". Abd don't even think about a "grant writer".
The selectmen need to be clear on what the override is for. They placed a 2 million and 4 million. Are the schools getting any of it if it were to pass? I personally think they are both going to fail terribly.
I agree that cutting needs to be done on both the School and Town Budgets. I also believe the Schools funding problem is caused by the State Funding Formula. We have legislators bragging about pushing the per student increase from $150 to $160 like that amounts to squat. In NRSD its a grand total of $12,980.
Right now you have the Schools budget cuts which are designed to pull on the heartstrings of parents. Out of 331.4 positions, 170 not being teaching staff within NRSD only , teachers getting cut. Not one of the 15.5 Janitors, not a single administration person from either the schools or Central Office. This is less a budget plan than a means to get more tax dollars from those who fall for it.
Same with the Towns present proposal. Cut Senior Center, Cut Library, cut police, cut fire, cut Dpw, why, because it gets people to separate from their money. Notice we didn't cut conferences, annual meetings, for town Hall. We didn't reduce hours, we didn't try and make it work. We seemingly decided we need an override and are pushing for it with little to no real effort to trim items that are not taxpayer first items. I do not support this proposal in any direction.
He should have. For one thing, he works for the BOS.. They work for us. He cut the crap out of the town budget and where are the cuts to the School ? He does not know our history, and neither do most of most of you. It has to be a two way street and the trouble is, it has never been. The schools are in the same financial mess we are in but that have avoided the pain until now. The school budget is so big it is just about unaffordable. That is a problem ! Welcome to the real world !
Staff are bringing concerns to Casavant. It doesn't appear he is handling it well. He is using bizarre references in his descriptions to the School Committee.
Liz Toth says the town adminstrator doesn't understand. I'm sure her husband has the plan to fix the budget. This town is comical. Sad. They have no clue what they are doing.
Citizens Have Questions About Underride Petition Question Not Included on Town Election Ballot
citizen Terry Logue before BOS Terry Logue addresses the BOS Photo copyright Town of Winchendon by Inanna Arthen During the public comment period of the Board of Selectmen's meeting on Monday, April 13, several citizens came forward to express disappointment that a citizen petition question was not placed on the ballot for the upcoming Town Election. A group of citizens had collected signatures on a petition to place a question before voters for a proposed Proposition 2-1/2 underride of $1.4 million.
Citizen Yvonne Senecal came forward to say, "Over the past four months, there has been a grassroots movement to address the excessive and punitive property tax increases through a tax underride. This earnest effort has had overwhelming community support. Winchendon functions under a town home rule charter. Town Meeting is the legislative branch and votes on appropriations, bylaws and policies. The Board of Selectmen does not hold primary legislative power. At our Annual Town Meeting, we review, amend and adopt the budget. This includes setting tax rates and decisions occur through majority vote.
"After discussion, residents organized, gathered signatures, submitted that petition and had that petition certified. They believed they were participating in good faith in the democratic process. Our Board of Selectmen chose not to put the citizen underride petition on the ballot. This leaves many questions unanswered. Was this presented to the Board of Selectmen for a vote when the debt exclusion for the schools was presented? Why weren't voters given the opportunity to decide? Residents followed the process available to them. The petition was submitted and certified. The final step, the one that actually puts it in front of the voters, was entirely in the hands of leadership, and they chose not to bring it forward. This is not about process anymore. This is about transparency. This is about trust in your local government. The voters are paying attention, and you will be held accountable."
Following Ms. Senecal, citizen Barbara Zisk came forward to say, "I stand before you tonight because what happened here was bigger than taxes, bigger than an underride and bigger than any one board. It was about the rights of the taxpayers and voters of this town. For months, residents organized. They signed the petitions. They had conversations, they followed the process they believed was available to them. They spoke up because they are struggling, because they are concerned and because they wanted their voices heard. But instead of allowing the people to decide at the ballot box, the opportunity was taken away. Let that sink in, not defeated by voters, not rejected in an election, not decided by the people, stopped before the people ever had a say.
"And what makes this even more troubling is that we have heard a very different standard before, most recently during discussion of the Fire Station project, when a resident asked for it to be delayed, the response was that the voters have the right to decide. I agree with that statement. The voters do have the right to decide. But apparently that only applies when leadership agrees with the questions being asked. If it is something favored and supported, voters should decide if it is something inconvenient or unwanted. Voters are denied the chance that's that is not consistency, that is not fairness, and that is not leadership that should concern every resident in this town, whether they supported the underride or opposed it, because when government decides which questions voters are allowed to vote on and which ones they are not, we all lose. Today it was the underride. Tomorrow, it could be another issue that matters deeply to residents."
Citizen David Watkins came forward to say, "What are you folks afraid of with this underride vote? There's obvious fear here. Otherwise you would not be opposing it. I believe we have the right to vote in this town." He stated that the Town Manager could not refuse to put an article on the warrant (the petition was to place a question on the Town Election ballot), told Town Manager Bill McKinney that he would be calling him, and demanded to know what Board Chair Andrew Beauvais' name was.
Citizen Terry Logue came forward to say, "We took a pledge before this meeting ever started, the last sentence being 'with liberty and justice for all.' You need to take account of the people who are here and what they are trying to say. The warrant is justified, and you take a good hard look, all of you, before you make a determination as to whether or not to allow it to set on the ballot."
Citizen Rick Lucier came forward to say, "I just wanted to comment that I think it's a little hypocritical for this Board or any other Board in the town of Winchendon to circumvent anything that the people of this town bring forward, to have put on a ballot without, as they say, sometimes, their due process. This should be out there. It should be listened to and all these Board members, you've taken an oath to upstand and do the work of the people, but when circumvention comes in and hypocrisy comes in, you've lost all credibility."
Board of Selectmen member Audrey LaBrie asked if the Board could have some clarification about "how the ballots are put together" as opposed to articles in the Town Meeting warrant which are often added by citizen petition. "The ballot is something that the Board of Selectmen has no input on, to the best of my knowledge, as far as the names that go on it, the questions that go on it," she said. "I know that we review the warrant, but I'd like to find out what that process is, just for general information, if nothing else."
Town Manager Bill McKinney said, "There are generally three types of override/underride questions. There is a general override and there's a debt exclusion. Those questions can only be put on a town wide ballot by the Board of Selectmen. An underride can be put on the ballot by the Board of Selectmen or by a citizens' petition if it's allowed anywhere in the charter. There's nowhere in the Town Charter that allows for that...because there's no provision in the Charter, the only way [a ballot question] can get on is through a vote of the Board of Selectmen."
There was further discussion about the general topic of how questions are placed before voters either as warrant articles or as ballot questions. The warrant for Annual Town Meeting has not yet closed--it will close on April 21, and the Board of Selectmen will review and vote on the final warrant at their meeting on Monday, April 27.
Ms. LaBrie asked if the underride question petition itself could be reviewed by the Board so they could see how it was worded and make sure it was handled correctly.
We should have an underride in Templeton. Not a massive underride, maybe $100,000. The point of this is to send a message. No more taxes. Stay within a frugal budget. Otherwise, we could do a million dollar underride.
You have to remember your taxes are already going up for the narragansett school roof. These massive proposed overrides <2 Million or 4 Million> voted on by the selectmen would be additional on top.
So, I just wonder what else the Selectmen could do about the school roof ? Ignore the fact it was rusting and leaking until the damage was irreversible ? They did what they had to. People vote d yes ! Did you vote?
Why do you worry about what they do? Who cares. The only solution is to restrict what they can spend. It's tough medicine, but Templeton and Gansett employees need a dose. They've got to learn to respect the tax dollars we pay.
Templeton and Gansett are in it together. Nearly a year ago, they worked together to get rid of our town coordinator that didn't want to bankrupt the town.
Nobody can challenge narragansett. They will resort to all moves to protect their interests. It was dumb that chris filed a complaint because someone was looking into their costs. We have a better chair of the Selectmen now. The other one wanted to be friends with the Superintendent. Hope he never runs for office again.
The town leaders we have really pushed a lot of tax increases on the taxpayers. This isn't fair. Why can't they figure out the budget? Did they try yet.
We don't have anyone in Town Hall who understands the concept of holding a fiduciary responsibility to the taxpayers. We have people whose only concern is feathering nests for town employees.
Nobody pushed any tax increases on taxpayers. The roof, was brought before Town Meeting as will the Budget be presented to taxpayers. Show up and Vote, maybe learn how the system works..........Non of this happens if taxpayers vote no, so I'd show up and VOTE!
The Selectmen voted for it to present. They brought the roof, they are bringing the override. Two huge overrides. They are bringing these tax increases to the people. They are responsible for the employees. They are the ones that need to hold town employees accountable.
The BOS are doing their jobs ! They are not dictators. It is up to the voters as to what is passed or not ! This is a democracy ! The overrides are what is really needed to get the town on a level base financially. It is up to the people that vote, what happens in the end. Apparently, you have little understanding of how government works. Stick around,you just may learn something.
Overrides should be last resort. That is the option they decided. 2 million and 4 million. My belief is the voters will reject strongly at the ballot box, we will see if they can figure it out with the schools.
You can't worry about the results. Vote your own best interest - no tax increase! Imagine if private industry attempted this? Only in the fantasy land of government could anyone try this crap.
Police can only reduce crime if judges take the bad guys off the street and sentence them to time in jail or prison.
That's how police can reduce crime. That's the only way they can protect the public. If you can't defend yourself when a violent thug attacks, all the police can do is take crime scene photos.
How cost effective is it to pay a police force to keep the peace if nobody they arrest gets time in jail or prison?
Those budget cuts are better for you than that tax increase.
ReplyDeleteStop overspending. Don't ever expand government.
No ! These hurt the town again and again ! We have been down this road so many times. Why do you think our roads are a mess ? Its because every time we are broke, the town departments get cut. We never catch up.
DeleteThat's stupid. Spend $3 million on salaries and wasteful gedunk because otherwise, our roads will be even shittier. But none of the new spending is fixing roads.
DeleteWe don't need the things this government provides. We do need better roads, but none of this money is road repairs. THD driving around filling potholes that are potholes again in 3 days isn't worth 25% tax increase. Neither is fattening the pensions of our "public servants". Abd don't even think about a "grant writer".
The selectmen need to be clear on what the override is for. They placed a 2 million and 4 million. Are the schools getting any of it if it were to pass? I personally think they are both going to fail terribly.
DeleteMany people moving out of town.
DeleteLook at the school budget. They have so many administrators they are walking into each orher. Be real, let them make cuts !
ReplyDeleteI agree that cutting needs to be done on both the School and Town Budgets. I also believe the Schools funding problem is caused by the State Funding Formula. We have legislators bragging about pushing the per student increase from $150 to $160 like that amounts to squat. In NRSD its a grand total of $12,980.
ReplyDeleteRight now you have the Schools budget cuts which are designed to pull on the heartstrings of parents. Out of 331.4 positions, 170 not being teaching staff within NRSD only , teachers getting cut. Not one of the 15.5 Janitors, not a single administration person from either the schools or Central Office. This is less a budget plan than a means to get more tax dollars from those who fall for it.
Same with the Towns present proposal. Cut Senior Center, Cut Library, cut police, cut fire, cut Dpw, why, because it gets people to separate from their money. Notice we didn't cut conferences, annual meetings, for town Hall. We didn't reduce hours, we didn't try and make it work. We seemingly decided we need an override and are pushing for it with little to no real effort to trim items that are not taxpayer first items.
I do not support this proposal in any direction.
The town administrator did not cut. He presented a PowerPoint and received criticism on it.
ReplyDeleteHe should have. For one thing, he works for the BOS.. They work for us. He cut the crap out of the town budget and where are the cuts to the School ? He does not know our history, and neither do most of most of you. It has to be a two way street and the trouble is, it has never been. The schools are in the same financial mess we are in but that have avoided the pain until now. The school budget is so big it is just about unaffordable. That is a problem ! Welcome to the real world !
DeleteDo you honestly think the School Committee would accept cuts from the Town? They won't, and we'll have another joint meeting with Phillipston.
DeleteThat's part of the downside to a regional school.
Casavant has a reputation for filing complaints. He is not afraid of the Templeton selectmen. He is the boss in his mind.
DeleteStaff are bringing concerns to Casavant. It doesn't appear he is handling it well. He is using bizarre references in his descriptions to the School Committee.
ReplyDeleteLiz Toth says the town adminstrator doesn't understand. I'm sure her husband has the plan to fix the budget. This town is comical. Sad. They have no clue what they are doing.
ReplyDeleteHer husband is a clown. He just talks tough. He would get voted out if anyone else ran. April Coover will probably get more votes.
DeleteThis Week's Winchendon News
ReplyDeleteCitizens Have Questions About Underride Petition Question Not Included on Town Election Ballot
citizen Terry Logue before BOS
Terry Logue addresses the BOS
Photo copyright Town of Winchendon
by Inanna Arthen
During the public comment period of the Board of Selectmen's meeting on Monday, April 13, several citizens came forward to express disappointment that a citizen petition question was not placed on the ballot for the upcoming Town Election. A group of citizens had collected signatures on a petition to place a question before voters for a proposed Proposition 2-1/2 underride of $1.4 million.
Citizen Yvonne Senecal came forward to say, "Over the past four months, there has been a grassroots movement to address the excessive and punitive property tax increases through a tax underride. This earnest effort has had overwhelming community support. Winchendon functions under a town home rule charter. Town Meeting is the legislative branch and votes on appropriations, bylaws and policies. The Board of Selectmen does not hold primary legislative power. At our Annual Town Meeting, we review, amend and adopt the budget. This includes setting tax rates and decisions occur through majority vote.
"After discussion, residents organized, gathered signatures, submitted that petition and had that petition certified. They believed they were participating in good faith in the democratic process. Our Board of Selectmen chose not to put the citizen underride petition on the ballot. This leaves many questions unanswered. Was this presented to the Board of Selectmen for a vote when the debt exclusion for the schools was presented? Why weren't voters given the opportunity to decide? Residents followed the process available to them. The petition was submitted and certified. The final step, the one that actually puts it in front of the voters, was entirely in the hands of leadership, and they chose not to bring it forward. This is not about process anymore. This is about transparency. This is about trust in your local government. The voters are paying attention, and you will be held accountable."
Following Ms. Senecal, citizen Barbara Zisk came forward to say, "I stand before you tonight because what happened here was bigger than taxes, bigger than an underride and bigger than any one board. It was about the rights of the taxpayers and voters of this town. For months, residents organized. They signed the petitions. They had conversations, they followed the process they believed was available to them. They spoke up because they are struggling, because they are concerned and because they wanted their voices heard. But instead of allowing the people to decide at the ballot box, the opportunity was taken away. Let that sink in, not defeated by voters, not rejected in an election, not decided by the people, stopped before the people ever had a say.
ReplyDelete"And what makes this even more troubling is that we have heard a very different standard before, most recently during discussion of the Fire Station project, when a resident asked for it to be delayed, the response was that the voters have the right to decide. I agree with that statement. The voters do have the right to decide. But apparently that only applies when leadership agrees with the questions being asked. If it is something favored and supported, voters should decide if it is something inconvenient or unwanted. Voters are denied the chance that's that is not consistency, that is not fairness, and that is not leadership that should concern every resident in this town, whether they supported the underride or opposed it, because when government decides which questions voters are allowed to vote on and which ones they are not, we all lose. Today it was the underride. Tomorrow, it could be another issue that matters deeply to residents."
Citizen David Watkins came forward to say, "What are you folks afraid of with this underride vote? There's obvious fear here. Otherwise you would not be opposing it. I believe we have the right to vote in this town." He stated that the Town Manager could not refuse to put an article on the warrant (the petition was to place a question on the Town Election ballot), told Town Manager Bill McKinney that he would be calling him, and demanded to know what Board Chair Andrew Beauvais' name was.
ReplyDeleteCitizen Terry Logue came forward to say, "We took a pledge before this meeting ever started, the last sentence being 'with liberty and justice for all.' You need to take account of the people who are here and what they are trying to say. The warrant is justified, and you take a good hard look, all of you, before you make a determination as to whether or not to allow it to set on the ballot."
Citizen Rick Lucier came forward to say, "I just wanted to comment that I think it's a little hypocritical for this Board or any other Board in the town of Winchendon to circumvent anything that the people of this town bring forward, to have put on a ballot without, as they say, sometimes, their due process. This should be out there. It should be listened to and all these Board members, you've taken an oath to upstand and do the work of the people, but when circumvention comes in and hypocrisy comes in, you've lost all credibility."
Board of Selectmen member Audrey LaBrie asked if the Board could have some clarification about "how the ballots are put together" as opposed to articles in the Town Meeting warrant which are often added by citizen petition. "The ballot is something that the Board of Selectmen has no input on, to the best of my knowledge, as far as the names that go on it, the questions that go on it," she said. "I know that we review the warrant, but I'd like to find out what that process is, just for general information, if nothing else."
Town Manager Bill McKinney said, "There are generally three types of override/underride questions. There is a general override and there's a debt exclusion. Those questions can only be put on a town wide ballot by the Board of Selectmen. An underride can be put on the ballot by the Board of Selectmen or by a citizens' petition if it's allowed anywhere in the charter. There's nowhere in the Town Charter that allows for that...because there's no provision in the Charter, the only way [a ballot question] can get on is through a vote of the Board of Selectmen."
There was further discussion about the general topic of how questions are placed before voters either as warrant articles or as ballot questions. The warrant for Annual Town Meeting has not yet closed--it will close on April 21, and the Board of Selectmen will review and vote on the final warrant at their meeting on Monday, April 27.
Ms. LaBrie asked if the underride question petition itself could be reviewed by the Board so they could see how it was worded and make sure it was handled correctly.
We should have an underride in Templeton. Not a massive underride, maybe $100,000. The point of this is to send a message. No more taxes. Stay within a frugal budget. Otherwise, we could do a million dollar underride.
ReplyDeleteYou have to remember your taxes are already going up for the narragansett school roof. These massive proposed overrides <2 Million or 4 Million> voted on by the selectmen would be additional on top.
ReplyDeleteSelectman voted to present them to Town Meeting for Vote, you know, give the taxpayer the say.
DeleteSo, I just wonder what else the Selectmen could do about the school roof ? Ignore the fact it was rusting and leaking until the damage was irreversible ? They did what they had to. People vote d yes ! Did you vote?
DeleteWhy do you worry about what they do? Who cares. The only solution is to restrict what they can spend. It's tough medicine, but Templeton and Gansett employees need a dose. They've got to learn to respect the tax dollars we pay.
DeleteTempleton and Gansett are in it together. Nearly a year ago, they worked together to get rid of our town coordinator that didn't want to bankrupt the town.
DeleteNobody can challenge narragansett. They will resort to all moves to protect their interests. It was dumb that chris filed a complaint because someone was looking into their costs. We have a better chair of the Selectmen now. The other one wanted to be friends with the Superintendent. Hope he never runs for office again.
DeleteThe town leaders we have really pushed a lot of tax increases on the taxpayers. This isn't fair. Why can't they figure out the budget? Did they try yet.
ReplyDeleteWe don't have anyone in Town Hall who understands the concept of holding a fiduciary responsibility to the taxpayers. We have people whose only concern is feathering nests for town employees.
DeleteNobody pushed any tax increases on taxpayers. The roof, was brought before Town Meeting as will the Budget be presented to taxpayers. Show up and Vote, maybe learn how the system works..........Non of this happens if taxpayers vote no, so I'd show up and VOTE!
DeleteThe Selectmen voted for it to present. They brought the roof, they are bringing the override. Two huge overrides. They are bringing these tax increases to the people. They are responsible for the employees. They are the ones that need to hold town employees accountable.
DeleteThe BOS are doing their jobs ! They are not dictators. It is up to the voters as to what is passed or not ! This is a democracy ! The overrides are what is really needed to get the town on a level base financially. It is up to the people that vote, what happens in the end. Apparently, you have little understanding of how government works. Stick around,you just may learn something.
DeleteOverrides should be last resort. That is the option they decided. 2 million and 4 million. My belief is the voters will reject strongly at the ballot box, we will see if they can figure it out with the schools.
DeleteI hope you are right about that.
DeleteAgreed!!!
DeleteYou can't worry about the results. Vote your own best interest - no tax increase! Imagine if private industry attempted this? Only in the fantasy land of government could anyone try this crap.
ReplyDeletePolice can only reduce crime if judges take the bad guys off the street and sentence them to time in jail or prison.
ReplyDeleteThat's how police can reduce crime. That's the only way they can protect the public. If you can't defend yourself when a violent thug attacks, all the police can do is take crime scene photos.
How cost effective is it to pay a police force to keep the peace if nobody they arrest gets time in jail or prison?