Vehicle excise tax is included in "local receipts"
Ah…the excise tax. The yearly bill you pay on the value of your car. Why does Mass. have it? To raise money of course.
But the comment has it wrong. The excise tax isn’t “supposed” to go for road repairs. It goes into the general fund of each city and town that collects the tax. Ask the state’s Dept. of Revenue about this and here’s what they might say:
“Motor Vehicle Excise tax revenue goes to a community’s general fund for the support of the general operating budget. Use of this revenue is unrestricted.”
So it’s not earmarked. Of course a community could decide to spend it on road repairs…there would be a good connection there…you know…cars…roads. But I suppose that would be like robbing Peter to pay Paul and would create a hole in another part of municipal budgets.
One thing about the excise tax- If there’s anything to like about a tax… this one (the) money goes to the town rather than to the state. So at least you are supporting your own community.
By the way, the cost is $25 per each $1000 valuation. And I sure agree about the conditions of many of our roads…nasty.
I think Baldwinville Rd is pretty good. But that got paved regularly, need it or not. Because a bunch of Selectmen lived there. Most roads really suck.
ReplyDeleteAlternative explanation and more plausible. It’s the road that leads to the Schools which carry children. The road that was used a lot when baldwinville police station was located above the laundromat. The road which leads to the precincts of baldwinville ( a once mighty economic engine ) and Historic Templeton Center .The road that has the highway dept, wastewater treatment / sewer dept as well as access point to Rte 2.
ReplyDeleteOr your explanation of course. Anon 941
Thanks for clarifying Jeff. My bad on excise
ReplyDeleteJeff,
ReplyDeleteThe "Cadillac tax" as I have heard it called is a way to tax people on their wealth not their usage of the roads. Just because a gentleman owns a brand new Porsche doesn't mean he is using the road more and should be taxed appropriately it is because he owns an expensive car and is considered a tax on his wealth. This would be saying a town such as Weston, which has one of the highest per capita income in Massachusetts, would be forced to tax all the Porsche, Tesla, and Bentley (High value cars) which was $3 million and their total expenses for the DPW was $1.25 million (not including salaries). There are only so much roads to repair. The comparison to a tax such as gasoline, which is implemented to be a usage tax, the more gas used the more you use the roads or so is the simplest logic you can boil this tax down. Sure it isn't a one to one and there are many exceptions such as smart cars that can go further on a single tank of gas or old antique vehicles that require more gasoline but that is a way they set it up. Overall the point being made is your "good connection" of excise tax to road repairs isn't good it's weak at best. Glad I could help clarify that.
I know this is your "snowflake" space Jeff but I wish you would express these recommendations, in your official capacity as Chairman of the Advisory Committee, during our budget meetings so we can debate these kind of issues in public. Instead I have to check here, correct you, and wait for you highlight my typographical errors in some twisted post. Let's be civic minded adults and debate in public next time.
Your Master (as you call me),
Cameron Fortes
Stepped in it BIG TIME with your concerns about people parking outside of your house. It will be fun watching you back track.
Delete“Highlight my typographical errors “ - simpatico cheers. anon 941 here
ReplyDeleteGood point ! Why are these discussions not out at meetings with the boards and committees or whatever ??
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteSomeone must have bought some knickers that are too small. There seems to be some confusion on excise tax, Cadillac tax and a luxury tax. The often referred to Cadillac tax has to do with a charge (40% has been mentioned) with regards to health plans and the so called Obama plan. It has been posted on this blog in the past. A luxury tax, which I suppose could be labeled as taxing someone's wealth, has to do with purchases on say clothing or shoes etc, which cost more than $175.00. Vehicle excise tax is placed on any registered motor vehicle in Massachusetts. It is not based on the blue book value either. It is considered a local receipts item which goes to the Town's general fund. Residents should expect someone who is responsible for producing and presenting a budget or spending plan to Town Meeting would know this, understand and know the difference of the three mentioned items. This is your snowflake place, thanks for the chuckle. As for these discussions, if you read the top of the blog page, anything posted here is aimed at the general public. I sometime hope to inspire people to be involved, ask questions or just show up for a meeting, show up to vote, show up at Town Meeting. I also got a laugh out of "I have to come here to correct you", I don't think I am the one who got we and they mixed up or as stated, making a typographical error. I can see the looks now on Monday evening at a budget discussion; excuse me Mr. Chairman, can we talk about the Cadillac tax and the luxury tax?
ReplyDeleteJeff,
DeleteThe initial argument was it would make good sense to allocate automobile excise for roads and I said it was a weak argument and you buried it with something about luxury tax and a correction about what to call the excise tax. Strip those two things out of your response and you have "I hope to inspire people to be involved" and a joke about cadillac tax question to the chairman.
So I still stand by the statement Automobile Excise should not strictly be allocated for road maintenance and my numbers from Weston of 3 Million revenue used to pay for 1 million in DPW costs would leave 2 million tied up.If you want to sprinkle some more insults about me falling into a pool while on vacation or how I used cadillac tax incorrectly by all means but so fare you connection of cars = road is a weak argument.
Let me know when you are ready to debate the topic.
Regards,
Cameron Fortes
Well, looks like someone had better study so they are prepared if you think you can out do Jeff. Just a note, Jeff is performing a public service, much like his dad did for many years..even though Fred did it a little differently.
DeleteWell, I have to say Jeff is correct with the tax definitions however that is no excuse for the lack of intellectual rigor on your advisory committee sir .
ReplyDeleteThis is the end, as it is a waste of time, no insult, just a reference to a tweet or twitter post made by Cameron Fortes showing him in a suit, beer in hand doing a face plunge into a pool. Is pointing out a fact now an insult? Secondly, you stated "Instead I have to check here, correct you," Seems like it has been the selectman who has been corrected. As for the excise tax issue, I did not, have not and will not make the argument for motor vehicle excise tax for road repairs. What I posted was an explanation (one) of what excise tax is and where it goes and that it is not earmarked for anything in particular. As one comment implied the excise tax was one of many "fees" earmarked for roads but was going else where, I corrected that notion, not sure if that is intellectual rigor or not, but I think at least I knew of what I spoke of and so far on two occasions today, a selectman cannot state the same. I do not think I really wish to debate cars = roads because I fail to see anything to debate. Now if a selectman wishes to have a debate or discussion on something of importance, a selectman would raise the idea to the select board of inviting some state senators and representatives and begin a discussion on why so little of the gas tax ends up in the hands of most cities and towns, why does much of it go towards the east side of 495? How much of it (gas tax) goes to tunnels, MBTA and transportation items in the Boston area? Perhaps we can debate what Town buildings to mothball to save some money? If that in fact would be the result. Oh, one other thing, this here blog has absolutely nothing to do with the Advisory Committee, I hope that is understood. I also feel if someone is to debate something, it needs to be understood, other wise you might find yourself making a point on something that is really not part of the conversation. Excise tax is not a Cadillac tax and Cadillac tax is not a luxury tax per say.
ReplyDeleteWell said Jeff. As a member of the Advisory Committee, I did not give up my right to free speech !I will not discuss A.C. business on line ever, but will do all I can to convince people not to give up on our Town Government. If giving them things to consider helps, along with a healthy discussion, then fine. As long as people return to town meeting I will be happy. Thank you for the time you put in bringing information to the public.
ReplyDeleteWith all due respect I have watched many AC meetings infact as far back as I can watch. I have never heard any ideas about raising income but ample about “ cutting - waste, fraud and abuse “ as the mantra goes. Then when those individuals get in positions - attempt to enact those slogans - well the townspeople’s rightly get upset and start looking at what that slogan actually would do.
ReplyDeleteOther than attracting people to the scenic ( up to ones interpretation) town of Templeton thru articfially low property tax rates / no industrial citing issues ( planning ) and a desperate cry what exactly has the Advisory board discussed in their open meeting ? What have you produced in the form of a document that could be presented - a list of cuts and revenue growth ? Have you ? I can’t seem to locate one.
Again, yes taxes that dreaded word is needed along with fiscal restraint and competence.
Running on simplistic ideas has proven to be an abject failure on the national and state stages and I would argue the local as well.
Looking forward the the public discourse on budgeting and ideas for the Towns future both short and long term.
Anon 10:25,
DeleteYou are wrong. I've personally raised the issue about marijuana tax.
My applogies yes, you have been vocal in that. I think you are correct and I hope the Town gets its collective thoughts together and moves this.
DeleteI would like the Green community program as well discussed as that brings about savings as well. The ability to apply for grants thru adoption as well is my understanding.
DeleteNot to single out AC - I have also watched as far back as I could the Selectboards meetings .
ReplyDeleteI’m just as shocked and pessimistic as to any real vision from them. The lack of in depth knowledge and their lack of intellectual rigor is just as astonishing at times . That doubly goes for the “ planning “ board . * green communities and Marijuana come to mind most recently